“The McCartney Legacy – Volume II”

Back in 2022, authors Allan Kozinn and Adrian Sinclair teamed up to deliver a wonderful gift to the music literature world. Their first volume of an in-depth series on Paul McCartney’s after-Beatles life titled The McCartney Legacy hit the markets with a bang. A magnificent 700+ page info-packed work instantly leaped ahead as the standard word on McCartney’s story covering 1969-1973. Now Kozinn, the former music critic and culture reporter for The New York Times, and Sinclair, a British documentary film editor and producer, have returned to continue the story with Volume II.  This is another textbook-size effort that takes the reader through the rest of McCartney’s 1970s and continues with the twists/turns, band drama, insights, laughs, and (of course) deep details that keep even the most hardened Paul aficionadas on a wonderful ride.

I recently had the pleasure to share a Zoom session with Allan Kozinn to talk about Volume II.

Culture Sonar- This volume opens with Paul basking in the glow of the huge success of the Band On The Run album worldwide. It would have made perfect sense for him to advantage himself with a world tour to keep the ball rolling, but instead, he turns to the promised project of producing and recording his brother Michael’s album.  That was a selfless gesture…was that based on their relationship?

Allan Kozinn– From what we know, he’s always had a pretty good relationship with Michael, despite reports in the 1980s that Paul felt that Mike was coasting on the family name. As many know, Mike changed his name [to Mike McGear]to avoid exactly that charge. In England, Mike had a track record with the band Scaffold and his own previously recorded works (to which Jimi Hendrix contributed). But with that said, Paul also had additional motives (not necessarily negative ones) in helping Michael beyond his brotherly commitment. Just before the sessions for Band On The Run, both [guitarist] Henry McCullough and [drummer] Denny Seiwell quit the band.  He did have a prospect for a lead guitarist in Jimmy McCulloch; now Paul could see how Jimmy [and drummer prospect Gerry Conway] could work through a whole album project.

CS– You spoke with Michael for the book; did you get any insight as to their current relationship?

AK- My perception today is that they are reasonably close, as brothers. He’s generally protective of Paul, but he’s a really interesting interviewee, in that he has a lot of stories to tell, even if those didn’t include a lot of the specifics that we look for (i.e. dates, who did this or that at the time). But he was really good regarding aspects of their relationship, historically going back to when they were growing up. He shared his memories of doing harmonies for the album that brought him back to the times when they sang harmony together at home as kids and that kind of thing. Otherwise, with interviewing Mike, it is almost like he’s doing a comedy routine, joking about things, making puns, and all that Liverpool kind of humor, not to mention referring to Paul most of the time as “Our Kid.”

CS– The era that Volume II covers (1974- early 1980) is an interesting time for Paul. All his success with the Beatles and now with Wings is undeniably there for the world to admire and enjoy, yet, we see an insecure artist, continuously worried about what people are saying about his work.

AK- Yes, he had an insecure streak. The thing about writing this book is, in doing it in the detail we tried to convey, was that we also aimed to get a sense of Paul as a person. Paul is a human being like the rest of us. We all can be successful and still be insecure. It’s not that uncommon.  In his case, he’s putting art out publicly, and it’s reviewed publicly. You may believe in what you are doing as an artist, but once someone else starts commenting on it, you have to deal with what you think about that person’s comments. A certain kind of person can ignore it, but most people can’t.

CS- In a previous conversation you and I had together, you told me a great story of Paul searching you out to have a chat about your NY Times review of the world premiere of his Liverpool Oratorio (1991).

AK- I had gone to a press conference announcing the New York premiere of the Oratorio, at Carnegie Hall. He saw me there, as he knew who I was from a previous interview, (and he has an incredible way of remembering and recognizing people), and after the press conference, one of Carnegie’s press people came up to me and said Paul would like to see me backstage, before a reception they were having. Paul said to me, “I just wanted to thank you for giving it a chance,” as the rest of the classical music press had reviewed it fairly harshly.

Paul told me that Lee Eastman [his legal and business counselor and father of Linda McCartney] read it over the phone to him when the review came out in the Times. Paul said his father-in-law, being a New Yorker, was a big Times reader, and was overjoyed to see it positively reviewed in that paper.

CS- Volume II vividly describes the perpetual ghost that chases Paul everywhere he tours in the form of questions about the possibility of a Beatles reunion. Constantly asking his views on rumors and odd quotes on the subject. Yet, he seemingly takes it in stride.

AK-   He sort of had it both ways. His publicist would send out a note saying (in essence) ‘Don’t ask him about the Beatles,’ and encourage the press to ask about current topics. And yet, in cases where the press didn’t bring up the Beatles, Paul would bring up the Beatles. By the way, that’s another thing Paul can do in an interview, he has the ability to make you feel you are age-old pals, and that he’s got nothing he would rather do than to talk to you! As a journalist, you know that that’s not the case – that this is Olympic-level diplomacy — but it’s hard not to feel it, as he is great at projecting that feeling.

CS- Did the other Wings band members resent any of the heavy Beatle reference questions in their press dealings?

AK- We didn’t get any sense of that in the band members that existed in

the time frame of this volume. But for Volume I, we did get a sense from interviews with various band members suggesting that they were insecure about whether Paul would actually go back with the Beatles…and wondered how would that work? Would he go back permanently? Would Wings would be a part-time thing?

CS– A consistent theme during this period is that Paul believes in the ‘equal members of the band’ makeup. That is, he is wed to that idea, telling each member that they would have an equal say in the band, perhaps equal opportunity for their songs being recorded, etc. He encouraged their participation in writing and input. He is seemingly sincere in his desire for that (as it mirrors the Beatles model). But in action, he violates that covenant time and again.

AK- He wanted a band that mirrored the Beatles as a group of equals, but on some level, he had to know that they would never be a band of equals, no matter who he got into the band. No matter what mix of players came together, none of the others would have been a member of the Beatles or could match his rich history as a songwriter, or a bassist, or a singer-pop star. None of those guys were ever going to equal Paul’s stature. 

CS- Which brings up Denny Laine in my mind. He was in the position to rise to the occasion and be the first lieutenant of the band, supporting Paul and his vision. But he missed the opportunity, and the book describes that he remained a bit of a malcontent, almost petty, hitching his wagon to Jimmy in doing the wild party-rock and roll thing, rather than taking a vested role in the band’s dealings.

AK- As early as 1973, Paul was publicly encouraging Denny to write more stuff for the band, and although he did write more, some of his stuff didn’t get on to Wings albums. If you look at Denny’s interviews at the time, he was a bit of a complainer. He needed to have more time for writing, and unlike Paul who could write on the fly, Denny said touring left too little free time for writing. In fact, he was telling the press right after Band on the Run that (in essence) “I was just a utility man” in the band. It’s really a Paul and Linda album.”

CS- To that point, the reader can’t get through a single chapter without bumping into a Jimmy McCulloch situation of out-of-control partying, drinking, and carousing. With his persistent negative actions, I thought Paul was quite patient with him during these years.

AK– Paul was very patient. Then eventually, there was the straw that broke the camel’s back, when Jimmy trashed the McCartney’s newly renovated farmhouse, smashing Linda’s fresh eggs from their hens, and throwing sauces at the walls. It was Jimmy on a rampage. Not his first rampage.

CS- Speaking of Linda, Volume II reveals her as a growing, strong person. Paul really pushes her to practice more and will not accept that she can’t be a better musical player. She gets to the point where she is notably more competent in her musical abilities and gives the world a confident attitude where she doesn’t give a flip to what people think of her.

AK – And you can hear she made a real contribution to the records. She had a definite say in the band. She has an affinity with the synthesizer, as early as Band on the Run. She often would push back and argue that her synth parts were NOT going to be buried in the mix, or under orchestrations. She had a sense of ownership for those parts.   

CS– Let’s talk about “Wings III” as it’s known. Paul finally gets the band dynamics right, toward the tail end of the Wings era. Both Laurence Juber and Steve Holley emerge as the excellent creative people that Paul has been looking for, and the team harmony Paul has been searching for (but failing) prevails. It’s all working, but the book describes this as the era when the first hints of the band’s demise begin. What happened there?

AK- I think Paul slowly, and maybe not consciously, realized that he had made his point. Wings toured around the world, they had hit records, and part of him wanted to continue doing that, but another part was sort of losing interest in the band structure. With Juber and Holley, he didn’t have the hassles of the first two versions of Wings – no complaints about pay, not wanting to party and misbehave. They were great players, and thoroughly professional.  They were also younger, and they understood who the boss was. They wanted to be part of the creative process and please Paul with whatever he needed. Although they worked well into 1980 on material that would show up on Tug Of War when he went to [producer] George Martin and said ‘I want to work with you again,’ George said ‘Fine, but I don’t want to record Wings – it should be a McCartney album.’  We will cover the details of this interplay in Volume III. So, that was the tipping point even though Wings was a well-oiled band by then.

CS- I was always under the impression that Paul broke up Wings as a reaction to being arrested and jailed in Japan, no?

AK- He really didn’t break up Wings until more than a year after his arrest in Japan. If you are a collector of bootlegs, there are plenty of recordings of the Juber/Holley configuration working with him seemingly on the next Wings album. But at a certain point, one of them read a piece in the music press saying that Wings had broken up. Steve Holley told us that he called Paul to ask about this, and Paul said, ‘Oh, yeah, I’ve been meaning to call you.’

CS– Volume II has a supportive element that Paul’s life is not all glamorous. I think the volume really gives the reader a wide view of the hard work Paul was embracing. The detailed research you and Adrian did regarding the contributions of Lee and John Eastman is excellent, in how they guided Paul to building the roots of his music publishing empire.

AK- Music publishing was one of the things Lee himself invested in, along with art, to which Paul collected as well. Paul had extremely good guidance from his father-in-law and brother-in-law. They knew the publishing world, they knew which companies were big, and they knew who had the rights to what songs. Lee leveraged Paul’s recording contract negotiations with Columbia (and Capitol in the USA) to buy up publishing houses as part of the deal to get Paul McCartney. Lee would say to the record companies, “We want ownership of so-and-so publishing company” that fell under their umbrella to be part of the recording contract.

CS- I have often thought that once Paul passes, (not wishing for this, of course) the world may find out what percentage of his financial empire came from his publishing investment versus his record sales. It would be interesting to see that breakdown.

AK- There is a point somewhere in Volume II where several newspapers decided to publish reports about his publishing holdings, which included everything from standards and Broadway shows to college football fight songs. And it was reported that those songs brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

 CS– For me, the most exciting part of Volume II ends with Paul’s arrest for marijuana possession in 1980 upon his band and crew landing in Tokyo in January. The way you approached the writing for this snapshot in history was thrilling: taking the reader back and forth from when the various players were present and how they found out about the event or witnessed the arrest. First, we are at the actual scene in customs, then we read how the horn section found out that Paul was being taken away, then switch to Linda’s being told, then the rest of the band discovering via TV news alerts, back again to the arrest scene, etc. …and then you end the book right there. It was like a fun spy novel, yet true history!

AK-  When I wrote that part of the book, I was very influenced by Adrian’s work as a filmmaker, in the sense that I approached it in an almost cinematic way. I was sort of thinking in terms of what would knock Adrian out to read. We had interviews with most of the musicians, and with [producer/engineer] Chris Thomas, and we asked them each where they were and how they heard this earth-shaking news. So, we had all this material, which let us offer all these different perspectives about what was happening, as it was happening. Steve Holley, for example, was taking a nap when his phone rang, and Linda told him that Paul was in jail. He thought she was joking! I know this had to be written the way Adrian would have filmed it, because it was such a dramatic point. I just kind of sensed a cinematic moment would be a great way to close this book. And that’s where Volume 3 will pick up.

-Steven Valvano

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